Compiled by Waiwai Y.

Guest:

Changpeng Zhao, Binance Founder

Host:

Farokh

Podcast Source:

FAROKH RADIO

Original Title:

CZ talks Life inside Prison, Trump Presidency, and state of Crypto!

Air Date: May 6, 2025

Highlights

In this exclusive interview, Farokh sits down with Changpeng Zhao, known by many as "CZ", Binances founder, and former CEO. They discuss CZ's time in jail, it's hardships and lessons, his thoughts on the 2nd Trump presidency, and how he's feeling about the Crypto space in general.

• I don't think I will ever be a meme coin trader myself. I'm not even a crypto trader myself. I was always the platform builder.

• There’s too much money going into meme coins. They’re attracting a disproportionate amount of attention, and in the short term, 99.999% of them will fail.

• It seems like governments are only going to keep buying Bitcoin. The U.S. waking up to this was probably the biggest domino to fall, and it’s setting the stage for others to follow. I still wish smaller players had gotten in earlier.

• AI is a big sector. But in the long term, science is going to be huge, including biotech. There are other things like more obvious ones like RWS. And also the etfs are interesting because now we bring the traditional institution money into crypto.

• The media industry needs to change unless they adjust their ethics.

• First and foremost, it made me realize what’s truly important: health and family come first, followed by work and everything else.

• If the goal is to help someone learn from their mistakes and truly change, there might be better ways than simply locking them away for long periods.

• I think a lot of people are worried about tariffs, etc. But I think that's just negotiation, and it’s not a typical geopolitics type of negotiation. It’s a very typical business type of negotiation.

• I think the the decentralized deck perps are a huge market, as you mention, and I think that's just getting started.

• The short term speculator view the Binance listing as the last stop. But for the builders, the Binance listing should be the early stage, should be the beginning.

• The exchange is more there for providing long term builders liquidity.

• I'm a bit of a workaholic. I work at least six days a week, usually six and a half days. I have meetings on Saturday, Sundays as well. And when I'm not working, I'm always thinking about work.

Farokh:

It's Feroc of Rock Radio. We're back here. In Abu Dhabi, woke up early this morning, drove all the way down here from Dubai as we're here for Token 2049 conference in the Emirates with the man, the myth, the legend, CZ himself. CZ, good morning. How are you doing today?

CZ:

Doing well. Thanks for having me.

Farokh:

I know you're busy, man. You're like the hottest guy at Token 2049. Do you like it out here? I know you guys are pretty close to the royal family out here.

CZ:

Obviously, I live here, so I love it. I can choose anywhere in the world pretty much, but this is the place. I think the whole country is great. Dubai is now a little bit packed—too much traffic, too many people. It's just growing so quickly. Whereas Abu Dhabi is big, quieter, more subtle, more deliberate, but also very powerful. I think it's one of the most well-led countries in the world. So it's just good leadership. That’s why I’m based here.

Farokh:

We have a lot of questions. We’re gonna talk about your views on crypto, Trump’s presidency, some of the stuff about the Abu Dhabi government. I’ve cut a lot of the crypto legislation stuff before the podcast because that boring stuff we can skip. We’re gonna talk maybe a little bit about your time in prison, the whole centralized exchange versus decentralized exchange conversation, maybe a little bit of Mint coin talk, Binance, and a little prediction game. You’ve made good predictions this year so far, so we’ll see the next ones. You’re a fellow Montrealer.

What did you learn from your time in the memecoin trenches?

Farokh:

What did you learn in the BNB trenches?

CZ:

It's pretty interesting, actually. So because I was busy, well, I was kind of distracted last year in the US. So I kind of missed the whole meme coin evolution. And then after I came back, like everyone's into meme coins and there's not a whole lot of utility coins in the space that's really actually building.

It's actually pretty interesting. It's pretty hard to learn. You thought you’d just post one image and that's it. But there's quite a bit of community rules or etiquette going on. For example, I didn't know that or everyone's asking me what the name of my pet is and asking me to post a picture. I didn't know if when you post a picture, that's gonna be like so much PVP.

I just thought it was gonna be fun. So I said I'm gonna post it 24 hours later, build up a little bit of hype. And then when I posted, like 1,000 broccolis and then there's communities like fighting over each other, etc.

I learned a lot of lessons the hard way. I kind of wish to just do softly so there's one clear thing and then you kind of focus on all the energy on that for people who like dogs, right? So there's like a very strong culture community element to it. And I also learned that for the meme coin traders, life is pretty tough. I mean, they stay on in the group chat all day long, like looking at this, like whichever new coin is gonna be hot, etc.

I don't think I will ever be a meme coin trader myself. I'm not even a crypto trader myself. I was always the platform builder. Like there's a difference between building the tools for people to use versus trading yourself. But I think we always follow the community. So whatever, we don't try to dictate where the community goes. So if the community is all over meme coins, we want to support it.

I look at BNB chain, the ecosystem, try to understand it. So I interacted with it a little bit more and people just want me to spend more time interacting with it because I do bring a level of attention to it. And then I want to help with the BNB chain ecosystem as well, because I can't get involved on the centralized exchange side, but there's no limitation for me on the decentralized exchange, the BNB chain ecosystem, Labs, etc. So I spend time where I can.

What part of the industry excites you the most?

Farokh:

What part of the industry excites you the most?

CZ:

I think there's a lot of stuff happening sort of below the noise.

AI is a big sector. Blockchain and AI are closely connected. Blockchain can be used natively with AI, and AI can leverage blockchain in many ways. Then there's science, what we call DeSci (Decentralized Science). I think it has a lot of long-term positive impact. Fundraising in science is difficult because science takes a long time. Meme coin traders, for example, are not interested in that—they want returns the next day.

But long term, science is going to be huge, including biotech. It’s very conceivable to use crypto and smart contracts to raise money for science projects, deliver them based on milestones or timeframes, and incentivize millions of small research labs around the world to conduct research. Combined with big data and AI capabilities, this could significantly accelerate areas like drug discovery and understanding human biology. All of that is going to happen—and is already happening.

There are other things like more obvious ones like RWS. There's big traditional companies doing that, Black Rocks etc. And also the etfs are interesting because now we bring the traditional institution money into in into crypto. Most of the money in the US is institutional, while the rest of the world is a little different. We've already seen the effect of that—Bitcoin is going up because most ETFs are Bitcoin-based. So, there’s a lot going on.

Is the institutionalization of crypto dangerous to its ethos?

Farokh:

Do you have any concern that crypto's growth and its involvement in politics, ETFs, and institutionalization could pose a threat to the ethos of decentralization outlined in Bitcoin's original white paper? While it's positive for price action—Bitcoin is up, even if altcoins aren't as much—do you think this could be a danger to the core values?

CZ:

A little bit. There are always pros and cons—nothing is 100% good or 100% bad. It’s always a balance, two sides to the same coin.

As an early Bitcoin adopter and a believer in decentralization, part of me wishes governments would come in last, especially when it comes to buying Bitcoin. Some of us would prefer that all the retail participants and smaller players have a chance to buy and hold Bitcoin first before big governments start purchasing. There are different perspectives on this. At the same time, government involvement—whether through buying Bitcoin or supporting crypto—has a positive impact on price action and serves as strong validation for the space.

In a decentralized world, we don’t control what others do, including governments. But it’s telling that the U.S. has shifted its stance so dramatically within the past 100 days. While the U.S. government wasn’t very pro-crypto before, they’ve now recognized that buying Bitcoin is a great move. This creates a domino effect, encouraging other countries to follow suit. It’s good for crypto overall, but I still wish smaller players had gotten in earlier.

Farokh:

They had time, though, right?

CZ:

They had plenty of time. For 15 years, we’ve been promoting crypto and talking about its potential. Those who chose not to buy made their own decisions, and that’s just how the world works.

Farokh:

You’re advising countries like Pakistan, right? And Bilawal Bhutto Zardari is involved. Also, the sovereign fund of Abu Dhabi recently invested in Binance. It seems like governments are only going to keep buying Bitcoin. The U.S. waking up to this was probably the biggest domino to fall, and it’s setting the stage for others to follow.

Where is the rot in the industry today?

Farokh:

What do you think are the issues or "rot" in the industry this time around? You’ve had a good sense of spotting these problems in past cycles. What should we be more cautious about now?

CZ:

Obviously, there’s too much money going into meme coins. They’re attracting a disproportionate amount of attention, and in the short term, 99.999% of them will fail. CoinMarketCap tracks around 13 to 14 million tokens, so you can imagine how many will go to zero. It’s definitely a high-risk area.

That said, most meme coin traders are aware of the risks—they’ve seen it happen so often that they’ve come to accept it. However, this trend is taking attention away from utility-focused projects, which is concerning.

Additionally, over the past four years, under the previous administration, running a legitimate crypto project was risky. The SEC might sue you, claiming your token is a security. Fortunately, many of those lawsuits have recently been dropped, which is encouraging. I think this will bring more builders back into the space, and the industry is starting to move in a healthier direction now.

Chat about the WSJ & Bloomberg hit pieces.

Farokh:

The Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg published some articles criticizing the cryptocurrency industry, sparking widespread discussion. What is your view on these reports?

On your way here, you were tweeting about The Wall Street Journal because you were quote-tweeting Elon Musk's message about fake news. Also, Donald Trump often talks about this. Even if it’s not fake news per se, it can be insightful but with a very negative connotation. That’s one of the reasons I started Rug Radio, and later we merged with Decrypt Media. Decrypt has always been my favorite crypto media because the journalism level is very high. Our goal is to put crypto and emerging technology in a positive light as much as we can. That doesn’t mean we don’t cover the bad, but it also means we don’t only cover the bad. It seems like The Wall Street Journal and other mainstream media love to cover crypto in a negative light all the time. Can you speak to that? It was upsetting when they published a hit piece on you, saying you threw other crypto founders under the bus while in prison to reduce your sentencing. They’ve been targeting you pretty hard. Can you comment on this?

CZ:

From my perspective, traditional media picks their targets—they pick a person, and then they try to attack them. They’ve picked Elon, Donald Trump, myself, and many others. The narrative is very consistent: once they pick you, they publish completely negative articles about you.

Luckily, that approach doesn’t work anymore. Traditional governments control a lot of media. In the U.S., they say it’s free speech, but there’s so much funding funneled into different news outlets, influencing them. That used to work, but it no longer does. In fact, it probably backfires now.

The fact that the previous party lost the election speaks volumes about what people are paying attention to. These tactics don’t work anymore. And now, we have our own channels and platforms to voice our opinions. Social media is a great tool that gives the “little guys” a voice. People can see us on video, at conferences, and in real life. They don’t just believe an article written by someone with an agenda.

It’s clear what the agenda behind those articles is. While these attacks are annoying, I try not to spend too much time on them. Unfortunately, some traditional regulators, politicians, and the older generation still rely on traditional media, so their views are skewed. But we can only do so much. At least now, we have our own platforms and large followings. I probably have a larger following than most politicians, and Elon’s following is much bigger than mine. So, the stronger and more authentic voices are coming out, and we’re less concerned about these hit pieces.

Farokh:

It’s still annoying because it skews the opinion of people outside the crypto space. Within the space, we get it, but outsiders share Bloomberg or WSJ articles without questioning them. Hopefully, they’ll start sharing more Decrypt articles soon, but for now, Bloomberg and WSJ are still the go-to sources for the “normies.”

CZ:

I spoke to someone at Bloomberg, a senior person there, and they mentioned they’re considering canceling their investigative journalism division. They told me that investigative journalism isn’t really about investigating issues anymore. It’s about targeting individuals with a pre-set agenda and twisting any little thing they can find into a narrative. That’s not journalism. It’s hurting *Bloomberg*’s reputation badly because Bloomberg is a technology company, not a media company. Their media division doesn’t make money, so they’re questioning why they’re doing it.

Bloomberg makes most of its money from selling terminals. I also heard that more than 30% of their news is already written by AI. Those are flash news pieces—quick, factual updates like “the market is dropping” or “this happened.” People prefer reading those because they’re data-driven and free from narratives.

The media industry needs to change unless they adjust their ethics.

Farokh:

Yeah, we’re trying to change it. That’s why I’m doing what I do. We’re focusing on predictive markets because we own Decrypt Media and Rug Radio, and embedding prediction markets into media makes sense. It gives real-time sentiment.

I liked what Polymarket did with Donald Trump’s election predictions. It showed that while the media was pushing one narrative, people were putting their money on another story.

Difficult Times and Changes in Prison

Farokh:

How did your time in prison last year change your lifestyle and approach to work?

CZ:

It definitely had an impact. Experiences like that always change you. First and foremost, it made me realize what’s truly important: health and family come first, followed by work and everything else.

In prison, I didn’t miss good food or even a comfortable bed as much as I missed my family. Surprisingly, I didn’t miss money or work either, though stepping down as Binance’s CEO was an emotional moment.

I’m a builder at heart, and I still have the energy to contribute. These days, I’m focusing on different things, like advising founders, supporting funds, and building educational platforms. There are so many ways to make a positive impact, and I’m staying busy. However, I am much more cautious now, especially about geopolitics. I’ve learned how political agendas can have a direct and personal impact, even landing someone in prison.

After being released, it took me a few months to ease back into society. I was less active on social media and avoided events for a while. It was a gradual process.

Farokh:

Did you make any friends in prison?

CZ:

Yes, I’m still in touch with a couple of them. You meet good people everywhere, and some of the inmates were severely over-punished. Many lacked access to proper legal representation or basic resources like internet connectivity. Their communication is limited to a clunky messaging system, short phone calls, and what their families can provide. It’s tough for them, and I try to help where I can.

Farokh:

Did you have access to crypto prices?

CZ:

No, I didn’t have internet access. Occasionally, I’d hear updates from messages or through TV channels, though most TVs were tuned to sports or sitcoms, which I don’t watch. Some inmates were curious about crypto, so we managed to dedicate one channel to financial news. That’s how I caught some glimpses of what was happening, like Donald Trump facing charges or his pro-crypto stance emerging.

I saw Senator Elizabeth Warren announce her “war on crypto” just days before my sentencing. At the time, it was stressful, but looking back, some of it seems absurdly funny—like the charges against Trump for keeping documents in his bathroom. If one of my employees did that, I’d probably give them a bonus for working so hard!

Farokh:

Can you share some of the toughest moments you experienced?

CZ:

Prison life is extremely hard. Looking back, I can laugh about it now, but it’s not funny at all when you’re going through it. I wouldn’t wish that experience on anyone. Even though I have a calm personality and a high tolerance for pressure, it was still very challenging. For example, strip searches, showing your body during intake, and being locked in a cell were humiliating experiences.

My first cellmate was a double murderer serving a 30-year sentence. He had already served 12 years and was transferred to low-security because of good behavior. Despite how intimidating that sounds, we got along fine. In prison, they don’t care who you are or what you’ve done—they treat everyone the same. Even though I was there for a white-collar crime and voluntarily flew in to deal with the charges, I was placed in a low-security prison because I’m not a U.S. citizen.

When I first entered the prison unit, it was terrifying. The unit had three stories with rows of cells facing each other, and about 240 inmates. The moment I walked in, I saw big, buff guys with face and head tattoos yelling over each other. It was intimidating. My cell door was locked, and I struggled to open it, which made it obvious I was a “new fish.” Everyone was watching, but they already knew I was new just by looking at my clothes.

Interestingly, though, the inmates were polite and nice once you got to know them. I didn’t have any issues with the inmates or guards. However, the hardest part was mental. I was constantly worried they might extend my sentence or bring up new charges, which happens to many inmates. It felt like “Hotel California”—you can check in, but you can never check out. If they had told me with certainty that I’d only serve four months, I could have handled it better. But the uncertainty was mentally exhausting.

Even after being moved to a halfway house, I faced challenges. For example, I was detained again for 14 days because immigration claimed my visa had expired, even though I was ordered to stay in the country and had applied for an extension. It was frustrating, but my lawyers managed to resolve it. Still, I wasn’t sent back to the halfway house afterward.

What are your current thoughts on SBF? Do you have more "sympathy" for him now?

Farokh:

What are your thoughts on SBF now? Do you have more sympathy for him after your own prison experience, or do you think he’s getting what he deserves?

CZ:

It’s hard for me to comment on what’s fair or not. I don’t wish the prison experience on anyone—it’s not easy. But I do believe bad behavior, such as fraud, lying, and deception, needs to stop. Those actions shouldn’t happen.

That said, I think U.S. sentences are generally long, though there are mechanisms to reduce them. For example, with good behavior, you can earn 10 days off for every 30 days served, so most people end up serving about two-thirds of their sentence. But I won’t comment specifically on SBF’s case.

I sympathize with anyone in prison because it’s a very tough experience. However, I’ve observed that people with long sentences—10 years or more—often lose hope of reforming themselves. Prison becomes their life, and they just adapt to it. Many of them know they’ve done something wrong, but some are over-punished. Unfortunately, long sentences often fail to achieve the goal of correction or rehabilitation. Instead, they just cost taxpayers money without meaningful change.

If the goal is to help someone learn from their mistakes and truly change, there might be better ways than simply locking them away for long periods. But again, I can’t say what’s right or wrong in SBF’s case.

Chat about Donald Trump and $TRUMP

Farokh:

So we, you spoke about President Donald Trump a few times now. You said that from prison you saw his rise, which probably made you a little more bullish on your own sentence, right?

CZ:

So for me, first of all, he was like charged with 34 crimes. 34 charges that the judge or the jury he agreed with. I was like that's crazy. And then he was running for president. I was like, okay, yeah, we, you know, that this would be the best thing.

And then he become pro crypto and you can see that he's really pro crypto. I was like, yeah, well, obviously this would be a good guy for our industry and also for any sort of people who have a criminal charge. Right? I think we as an industry is very lucky that, you know, the US, the current US president is very pro crypto and yeah, he's very smart.

Farokh:

I know a lot of the other founders in space they lobby. They paid access as well. But some of them when I was at the Digital Summit covering it, we got the White House hard pass to be able to cover it on the crypt side. There's a lot of the other founders of centralized exchanges that appeared there. So I was just wondering maybe if you're close.

CZ:

No. As a foreign company, as a foreign citizen, there's no way for us to donate. I'm very careful not to do anything that has to do with the election.

I'm still like the larger shareholder in Binance. We're very careful with not doing anything related to the elections. After came out, I haven't done anything in the US yet. So Binance US is still running, but we haven't done anything else. There's a lot of news articles saying like I'm trying to exchange Binance US equity for pardon. That's completely not true. I've had zero discussions about finance US equity with anyone. Finance US equities have not changed. Those stories are just made up.

Farokh:

Is there any progress regarding your application for a presidential pardon?

CZ:

There are the legal means to apply, right? I got lawyers applying. I'm sure we only submitted after the Bloomberg article. And what should your article coming out. And then they were, I was like, well, if they're writing this article, so might as well just officially apply, right? So at the time I was like, and then got also got his very recently. I think we only submitted the application two weeks ago. Let's go.

Farokh:

How do you rate the presidency so far?

CZ:

I think it's great. President Trump understands business. I think a lot of people are worried about the tariffs, etc. But I think that's just negotiation, and it’s not a typical geopolitics type of negotiation. It’s a very typical business type of negotiation.

In a business environment, you go super high, then you go low, and eventually land at a spot. That’s very common in business. In geopolitics, you usually don’t see that because it has a large impact on industries, economies, etc. But it’s actually kind of refreshing to see. And I think, you know, President Trump is very much a deal guy. He will make deals.

Farokh:

Do you think the trade war with China and Donald Trump could end sooner rather than later?

CZ:

I think so. China has very good deal guys. The Chinese guys are very smart in making deals. Really, the way it was communicated, I think the Chinese guys did not like it because in Asian culture, we care about face. So if you publicly say, "Look, we’re gonna demand this much," they’re gonna say no.

I think there’s a bit of a cultural difference. In America, especially with President Trump, you see his meetings televised through social media in real time, which is really refreshing to see. You don’t see that with most other presidents, but he’s doing things differently.

I think eventually, they all have very good advisors who understand the different cultures, etc. I’m very confident. At least now they’re negotiating, right? Previously, they weren’t talking; they were just softly cutting each other off. It was all soft power before. But at least now they’re talking. So I’m actually very optimistic.

Farokh:

What do you feel about Trump's meme coin?

CZ:

I don’t know too much about it because I’ve heard so many different stories from different people. Yeah, some say it’s really closely associated with him, some say not at all. I actually don’t know that much.

Farokh:

There’s some association, right? Because they’re hosting a dinner on May 22nd with access to the top 20 holders of the meme coin.

CZ:

No. So again, it’s just because of media articles.

Farokh:

You try to stay away from it?

CZ:

I try to stay away from it. So it does impact how you operate. I bought zero Trump coins because, with all the media attacking and trying to associate us in one way or another, I’m just gonna stay clear of it.

Farokh:

Do you think the leadership here is taking notes on Donald Trump, or how forward-centric they are in the Emirates?

CZ:

No, the leadership in the Emirates is extremely forward-thinking, extremely smart, extremely intelligent, and extremely visionary and thoughtful. And also, I would say delicate. They know how to handle really tricky issues.

They understood blockchain technology way earlier. They understood that they cannot rely on oil forever. They need to develop other industries, which they have here. But of all the industries, I think blockchain is one big one. AI is another big one. So these are technologies for the future. The leadership here understands them really very well.

And also, the leadership here has very good relationships with America. I don’t know all the details, but, you know, just from the grapevines I hear, there’s deep collaboration in AI, blockchain, etc. So I think this is one of the most forward-thinking countries and one of the most well-led.

I think leadership matters a lot. When you have a good leader, the country grows well. I actually think that whichever system you use—democracy, monarchy, etc.—many people get bogged down by the system, but it’s the leaders that matter. In any system, even in a democracy, you can have bad leaders. But strong leaders grow businesses, right? They figure out taxes, correct policies, regulatory frameworks, and so on. I think we see that here, and we also see that in the US now.

CEX vs. DEX: has the space shifted?

Farokh:

Do you think the competitive landscape between centralized exchanges (CEX) and decentralized exchanges (DEX) has changed?

CZ:

I think many people view like centralized exchanges versus decentralized exchange. I think that's the wrong view is the terminology that makes people think they're opposite, but they're all tools who provide access to the blockchain. The centralized exchanges don't exist without blockchains do that. So they're only a tool that provides access to the decentralized world. It's just that many people are easy for normal users. Their email password is easier than dealing with a private key. They have to encrypt themselves, save themselves, etcetera. But there's just two different ways to access these two different doors into the same area.

I think for any solution provider or any builders here in the space, we should like, we should provide everything. We shouldn't be just like we sh, we're not married to a centralized exchange. I'm not married to a centralized change. That's not the goal. That's just a means to provide access.

We invest very heavily in the central exchanges, the decks, perps, blockchain development, and also many other ecosystem players, etc. So I think the the decentralized deck perps are a huge market, as you mention, and I think that's just getting started. There's so much more to do.

I think the current model where everything is fully transparent may or may not be the best model. Because you can see a big well putting a 300 million dollar short, but the guy who really want to do 300 million short don't want you to see it, right? So the guys were putting that there. Yeah, there's a.

Traditionally DOC pools are way bigger than the, what we call it or order books. So I think there's a lot of room to grow, but I do think that future is decentralized. So I think in the, I've said this many times, in the future, dexes are gonna be bigger than Cex. And we want to invest heavily in those areas. Yeah, we wanna invest in the things that will overturn, that will disrupt our business.

Farokh:

Are you already in the process of doing that?

CZ:

We invested in multiple decks, purpose, etc. But now I'm not running them anymore, which is not. We generally just minority investors.

Farokh:

Very often recently it's been the reputation like, oh, a coin gets listed on a centralized exchange and for the trenches, that's immediately a top signal. Now it's like, oh, now that it's gonna lose the steam from decks, you know. I feel like the vision is changed.

CZ:

A little bit, but I think that's just for the short term speculators. So the short term speculator view the Binance listing as the last stop. But for the builders, the Binance listing should be the early stage, should be the beginning. The exchange is more there for providing long term builders liquidity.

The infamous group chat with other executives.

Farokh:

There was this article in the New York Times back then that covered that there was a little banter back and forth between you and SBF in a group chat with other executive. How often do you still talk to other big executives?

CZ:

I talk to them from time to time, but not very often at all. Number one, all of us are busy. Number two is there's some competitiveness in like between exchanges, etc. So we, and also in that group, there's like 10 exchange founders. Okay. So it exists. It is, it exists for sure. And the final group, but you know how that group got created was when Luna went down and then they were launching Luna 2. And then a guy then from FTX, he used to work for be Phoenix before that he use, and then he work for OKX before that and he worked, yeah, at OKR. Oh, okay. Okay. Coin at the time. And so he knows quite a lot in industry players.

The group was created to to to s how to synchronize how we name the two coins. Because otherwise every exchange is gonna do their own thing. It's gonna be so confusing for the users. So it's gonna be like now with on Binance is Luna 2, but on you is Luna. That's the same token. It's confusing. So that group was created to coordinate that and the group name is called Exchange Coordination.

There's just one guy who created this group, and he dragged a few guys in, and then we dragged a few other guys in. And then I got in. So I got questioned so much about that group by the regulators. They were like, "Are you guys manipulating?" And we were like, "We're all competitors. We really like each other, but we’re competitors."

Later on, we used that group for other purposes. For example, if a hack happens on one exchange, I’d say, "We need help looking at this address. If it's transferred to any other recently, we gotta freeze that. So, on those types of issues, like fighting against hackers, the exchanges do work together.

We're not looking at blockchain trying to trace transactions. And there was a day where FTX was shorting USDT. And they were trying to I think there were some rumors about them trying to depeg it. And then Paolo message in the group said stop doing this. And then I messaged in the group and said, look, we're fully behind, we're not gonna let the industry get more hits. We're fully here to provide help, liquidity if needed. And again that message got scrutinized. Nothing came out of it. I just spent so much questions about it. And there's a lot of sensational reporting about it again. But again, it's just one group that some guy created.

I've only met Paolo 2 days ago in person for the first time ever. I think he's a great guy. Many of us know of each other. We may have a chat here and there. There were some funds go flew through Binance. That was, we had to ask them to freeze on USDT. So I message Paolo. He responded right away, got his team on it.

We still know that between Tether and us, there's not much competition. They run an exchange, we do too, but we don’t really compete much in that way. So, you know, we like each other, and we mostly meet at conferences, right?

Of course, once in a while, we’re at the same conference. For example, this is the first time I met Paolo [Ardoino, Tether CTO] in person. And it’s also the first time I met Jeremy [Allaire, Circle CEO] in person two days ago. We’ve been in the industry together for 11 years, and while our teams chat, this was the first time I met him face-to-face.

Would CZ ever go back to leading Binance?

Farokh:

If Donald Trump was open to letting you, would you ever be interested in going back to leading Binance?

CZ:

I don't think I will be able to see you anymore. I think that's a chapter that's flipped. And I think I’m kind of lucky that I had a forced retirement. I think if I was to retire voluntarily everyone would say, like, this guy ran out of stamina.

Farokh:

I heard your workaholic through the Grapevine.

CZ:

I am. I'm a bit of a workaholic. I work at least six days a week, usually six and a half days. I have meetings on Saturday, Sundays as well. And when I'm not working, I'm always thinking about work.

It's just like how the mind is built. My brain is always trying to think about work. I have some extracurricular activities. I'm into kite surfing now. I'm learning about it. I can do a little jump, but I can't land very well.

By most definitions, I'm a workaholic. I don't think I'll go back to Binance as a CEO. The company has been running really well for the last year and a half without much involvement from me. I’m still a shareholder, so I still benefit. Binance has a strong team. We want to continue to grow the team. I would love to have a pardon, but I'm not really looking to become a CEO of Binance again.

Farokh:

So would you ever start or join another crypto focus project? And if so, what kind?

CZ:

I view my role as more of a mentor, a coach, a helper, kind of like a coach standing on the sideline advising new entrepreneurs. I don’t foresee myself leading another project. Even though I’m still working very hard, I’m much more relaxed now than when I was leading Binance. I don’t think I have the stamina to do that again. It requires so much effort, so much work, and so much mental tension. I’m happy with being a one-shot success. I’m not trying to prove that I’m a capable serial entrepreneur.

Myriad Markets rapid fire prediction game!

Farokh:

Lastly, let's do five basic rapid-fire questions. We launched Myriad Markets, which is a prediction market platform. It's gamified, and it's kind of like a binary situation where I’ll ask you a question, and you just either give me a number or an estimation of prediction.

What do you think the total crypto market cap will be by the end of the year?

CZ:

Maybe 5 trillion.

Farokh:

What do you think the price of Bitcoin tops at this cycle?

CZ:

Somewhere between 500K to 1 million, I think.

Farokh:

Will Trump flip Doge this cycle?

CZ:

That I’m not sure. It really depends. There are two meme coins. It really depends.

Farokh:

Will Fartcoin go to $10? The price now is 1.20.

CZ:

Okay. No.

Farokh:

Last question: will you get another dog?

CZ:

Not in the short term. Why? Because it’s a lot of work.